With all the current political events going on, I decided to reread Thucydides and Tacitus over the past few weeks. Two passages seem eerily relevant to our situation today. Human nature does not change.
"So corrupted indeed and debased was that age by sycophancy, that not only the foremost citizens who were forced to save their grandeur …
With all the current political events going on, I decided to reread Thucydides and Tacitus over the past few weeks. Two passages seem eerily relevant to our situation today. Human nature does not change.
"So corrupted indeed and debased was that age by sycophancy, that not only the foremost citizens who were forced to save their grandeur by servility, but every ex-consul, most of the ex-praetors and a host of inferior senators would rise in eager rivalry to propose shameful and preposterous motions. Tradition says that Tiberius as often as he left the Senate-House used to exclaim in Greek, "How ready these men are to be slaves." Clearly, even he, with his dislike of public freedom, was disgusted at the abject abasement of his creatures." —Tacitus, Annals, 3.65
"The cause of all these evils was the lust for power arising from greed and ambition; and from these passions proceeded the violence of parties once engaged in contention. The leaders in the cities, each provided with the fairest professions, on the one side with the cry of political equality of the people, on the other of a moderate aristocracy, sought prizes for themselves in those public interests which they pretended to cherish, and, recoiling from no means in their struggles for ascendancy engaged in the direst excesses; in their acts of vengeance they went to even greater lengths, not stopping at what justice or the good of the state demanded, but making the party caprice of the moment their only standard, and invoking with equal readiness the condemnation of an unjust verdict or the authority of the strong arm to glut the animosities of the hour. Thus religion was in honor with neither party; but the use of fair phrases to arrive at guilty ends was in high reputation. Meanwhile the moderate part of the citizens perished between the two, either for not joining in the quarrel, or because envy would not suffer them to escape." —Thucydides, History of the Peloponnesian War 3.82.8
I recently read Discourses for the first time. Lots of insight packed in there. And I was somewhat surprised to see that Machiavelli is something of an idealist, says the republic is the ideal form, although not always possible. Sense of the tragic, governance in the face of bad options.
One of the great "virtues" of Machiavelli is that he is oriented toward the classics, despite his disagreements with them. Put differently, he cannot be properly viewed through or via the technocratic mentality - he is prior to, and more fundamental. He is free of all gnostic tendencies or false moralisms.
Dr. Greenwald, this link is a little sloppy, but it will take you to an online presentation of Machiavelli and Pascal to be given by Italian historian Carlo Ginzburg, sponsored by The Italian Academy for Advanced Studies in America. You can easily sign up to participate. Unfortunately, we are conversing a little late - it will take place tomorrow, 4/3/23 @ 12:00 EST. Still, if you (or anyone here) are available and interested, you might consider it. It is scheduled for 1 hr.
With all the current political events going on, I decided to reread Thucydides and Tacitus over the past few weeks. Two passages seem eerily relevant to our situation today. Human nature does not change.
"So corrupted indeed and debased was that age by sycophancy, that not only the foremost citizens who were forced to save their grandeur by servility, but every ex-consul, most of the ex-praetors and a host of inferior senators would rise in eager rivalry to propose shameful and preposterous motions. Tradition says that Tiberius as often as he left the Senate-House used to exclaim in Greek, "How ready these men are to be slaves." Clearly, even he, with his dislike of public freedom, was disgusted at the abject abasement of his creatures." —Tacitus, Annals, 3.65
"The cause of all these evils was the lust for power arising from greed and ambition; and from these passions proceeded the violence of parties once engaged in contention. The leaders in the cities, each provided with the fairest professions, on the one side with the cry of political equality of the people, on the other of a moderate aristocracy, sought prizes for themselves in those public interests which they pretended to cherish, and, recoiling from no means in their struggles for ascendancy engaged in the direst excesses; in their acts of vengeance they went to even greater lengths, not stopping at what justice or the good of the state demanded, but making the party caprice of the moment their only standard, and invoking with equal readiness the condemnation of an unjust verdict or the authority of the strong arm to glut the animosities of the hour. Thus religion was in honor with neither party; but the use of fair phrases to arrive at guilty ends was in high reputation. Meanwhile the moderate part of the citizens perished between the two, either for not joining in the quarrel, or because envy would not suffer them to escape." —Thucydides, History of the Peloponnesian War 3.82.8
Machiavelli affirmed these insights.
Discourses on Livy is criminally underrated.
We are understanding one another, Dr. Greenwald.
I recently read Discourses for the first time. Lots of insight packed in there. And I was somewhat surprised to see that Machiavelli is something of an idealist, says the republic is the ideal form, although not always possible. Sense of the tragic, governance in the face of bad options.
One of the great "virtues" of Machiavelli is that he is oriented toward the classics, despite his disagreements with them. Put differently, he cannot be properly viewed through or via the technocratic mentality - he is prior to, and more fundamental. He is free of all gnostic tendencies or false moralisms.
Great passages. Thank you for sharing them!
That was a fascinating read. Thank you!
https://italianacademy.columbia.edu/events/nevertheless-machiavelli-pascal-online-discussion-carlo-ginzburg?fbclid=IwAR3ZiUrbqO5WVuiNjonIwDmsb3TPQU_ac1_pPbui45T43xbQacp18luzxPQ
Dr. Greenwald, this link is a little sloppy, but it will take you to an online presentation of Machiavelli and Pascal to be given by Italian historian Carlo Ginzburg, sponsored by The Italian Academy for Advanced Studies in America. You can easily sign up to participate. Unfortunately, we are conversing a little late - it will take place tomorrow, 4/3/23 @ 12:00 EST. Still, if you (or anyone here) are available and interested, you might consider it. It is scheduled for 1 hr.