Islamism is a cancer. Everything it touches turns to shit. It's time our western leaders stop pretending, stop pleasing the radical progressives, stop simping for terrorists, stop apologizing for rapists. Until they don't, we will not a see a real change. And most importantly, Islam needs to change it's ways. Denounce terrorism. Denounce…
Islamism is a cancer. Everything it touches turns to shit. It's time our western leaders stop pretending, stop pleasing the radical progressives, stop simping for terrorists, stop apologizing for rapists. Until they don't, we will not a see a real change. And most importantly, Islam needs to change it's ways. Denounce terrorism. Denounce imperialism. Denounce sharia, kalifate or whatever fantasy of grandeur they have in mind.
If Islam was practiced by white men of European descent it would be considered far right extremism and there would be government programs in every western nation to root it out.
Islam will not change. Subjugating / converting / eliminating infidels is one of its foundational principles, written directly into its source documents and woven through its covenants.
I remember when Christopher Hitchens and, later, Sam Harris sounded this warning. Naturally, they were denounced as racist xenophobes and Islamophobes. The mealymouthed apologists in the "reformed" or allegedly moderate Muslim camp have been running cover for their fundamentalists all the while, giving the impression that Islam is reformable when it is not. Besides, the UK and Europe can't wait for reform, even if it were possible.
So the real enemy is not the Islamists because their aims are clear, but the secular or moderate Muslims who are too stupid to realize they are part of an evil religion?
Fundamentalist Muslims are indeed the enemy, and those Muslims who give lip service to reform but have no agency to enact it are useful idiots, as the commies used to say, or, to be charitable, pawns in a game they have no real interest or motivation to quit.
I'm operating under the theory that God need only 'flip a switch' inside them and then the logic that they employed in "embracing" will invert to REPULSION. The "Idea" is to create an environment where no individual makes a VICTIM of any other individual. This is done by BECKONING, not clubbing. It is EASY to recognize evil when you understand that it DOES use a club and it FORCES YOU TO PARTICIPATE.
Our recently elected idiotic socialist government wants to bring in laws to prevent any kind of discussion, never mind criticism, of Islam and its followers.
The problem here is of course pleasing foreigners into your country. They do not have more rights than the citizens. The law is the law. Engaging in riots is not permissible. Women cannot be subjugated. All laws are to be followed regardless of religion. If you don’t like it, leave the country.
Very similar in the USA. There are two sets of laws. This contributes to the hollowing out of the society.
Our world is a mess. Our Western culture and civilization is crumbling before our very eyes thanks to the feckless people we vote for.
You mean the FECKLESS PEOPLE WE HAVE TO CHOOSE FROM. They all seem to come from acedemia and haven't put on a yoke and pulled a load a SINGLE DAY IN THEIR LIVES. A prerequisite of holding office should be that you have to come from WORKING a career for a minimum of 10 years.
These are the Muslims I knew when I was a cab driver in Sacramento. They kept their shops and played by the rules and kicked soccer balls around and ate hamburgers and sent their children to public school where the kids weren't known for giving everyone else problems.
The US curdled and went sour after the Iraq invasion- meaner, more trigger-happy, more alienated, more addicted, more polarized. The 2008 mortgage collapse made that even worse. But neither of those situations are the fault of ordinary Muslims living in the US.
But the US isn't the UK, which is currently getting buried by newcomers- disproportionately young single males. I have to wonder how many of them decided to settle in the UK after being given the bums rush by other European countries. Large cohorts of young single males are society's nightmare. (As I noted in the pages of The Atlantic in 2015 when Angela Merkel opened up the borders of Germany to a wholesale flood of immigrants- fwiw, largely a rolling 2nd and 3rd order consequence of the US-led adventure in Iraq.)
But whatever the case, increased numbers of human beings always lead to logistics problems. Food, clothing, shelter, energy and water use, schooling, productive employment, achieving the goal of pitching in to contribute more than you take away. Almost everyone is both a giver and a taker. The problems show up when there's more taking than giving. And the more newcomers that show up and the faster it happens, the more criminality, antisocial conduct and tension there is.
Contending with millions of newcomers a year is tough enough for the US as it is. An estimated 2.6 million in 2022. But the continental US has around 3,110,000 square miles of territory, and the UK has an area of only 94,300 square miles. And net immigration to the UK in 2022 was 734,000. Total births in the UK in 2022 605, 479.
Islamism- fanaticism that insists on politicizing a sectarian community- definitely exacerbates the problems. But the basic problem would show up no matter the "identity", due to the numbers. A big crowd of newcomers showing up all at once always leans too hard on the locals. Just opening up the gates is disaster economics. No matter the particular economic ideology.
Maybe I am misunderstanding your comment. Many of those rioting are white born-in-England Englanders. They also have to follow the laws of the land or be told to "leave the country"?
Islam is essentially the opposite of Christianity. Instead of Love thy neighbor it is kill thy neighbor if they disagree with any of your beliefs. They cannot do as you suggest "Denounce terrorism" because that is a main part of their 'religion' as taught in the Koran and other writings.
I assume you mean those Christians who burned heretics at the stake and brutalized those who opposed them. Religion is the enemy and Islam is not alone in this.
Christians don’t fucking burn anyone ‘at the stake’ in our modern world but ISLAMISTS certainly rape, torture, maim, kill, dismember, disembowel, burn, and otherwise mutilate who ever they fucking choose to.
I will give you that religion is a force of division outside of itself but that’s it: enough of the ‘but look what (insert group) did/does!’.
Inform yourself of Islam - it is INCOMPATIBLE WITH THE REST OF HUMANITY, and it’s NOT A RELIGION.
It’s a death cult, followed religiously.
Some members are nice and helpful and egalitarian, even kind toward others….but their basic tenet is that ISLAM WILL RULE THE WORLD.
When the call comes to make that happen, every Muslim will attend.
The discussion, feel free to correct me if I’m wrong is about the hear and now. Not ancient history that you are quoting. If you’re going down that path Islam has a very nasty ancient history. Let’s stick to the present. Opps almost forgot about the churches burned. In some cases including their congregation going on at present.
Islam, as seen in strict countries such as Iran, is as nasty as any historical events. Even "moderate" regimes such as Qatar and UAE are only moderate as long as you behave, do as you are told and never argue.
Britain led the Western world into an Age of Liberalism.... and is now leading the Western world out of it again (via hyper 'liberal' Wokism) and into a new Dark Age. The Wokies are in for a shock when they finally get the full on reality of the 'multicultural' mayhem they so richly deserve.
There is much about Israel that I do not admire , especially right now. But one thing that is insisted upon if you move there and there are many Jewish folks who moved there from all over the world with totally different cultures, one thing you must learn Hebrew and settle into the culture that is already there. Unfortunately this can also mean what we're now getting in Gaza so there is perhaps no perfect answer. But I do think we can require some standards when folks move into a totally different culture. I live now in Mexico and I am told constantly that I am a guest in their country and that if I don't like what is going on here I need to move to where I will be happy. Maybe that is the message we need to tell all immigrants who move into a foreign country and want to change it to what they left.
"Unfortunately this can also mean what we're now getting in Gaza"
--------
The Muslims view any non-Islamic nation state in the Islamic World (as they define it) as an abomination - a modern day crusader state (yes, a 1000 years later they are still upset about the Crusades). As such (being animated by fervent religious beliefs) they are willing to die (and take their family with them) in the struggle to extirpate the "cancer" of infidels amongst them.
Hamas could just surrender, like the Germans & Japanese sensibly did when they realized they could not win. They sensibly chose to not allow/facilitate further destruction of their people and place. They surrendered, and then got on to the business of rebuilding their destroyed society and eventually thrived in peace with their conquerers.
Hamas (apparently with strong support by Gazans) will not surrender even though Gaza is increasingly reduced to a pile of rubble, so Israel must press on. Until... what, i don't know).
I do know that what Golda Meir said about peace in the middle east seems to be true. "We will have peace with the Arabs when they love their children more than they hate the Jews"
I admire everything about Israel. They have the guts to defend their nation; the West does not. They bar jihadists from immigrating; the West welcomes jihadists as immigrants, whether legal or illegal.
Gaza initiated a war with a barbaric attack on a peace festival and kidnapping, mutilation, torture, rape, and murder of hundreds of additional victims. On the following link, you can watch the Gazans cutting a baby out of a pregnant woman's stomach: https://granitegrok.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/cutting-baby-out.mp4
I wonder how you would feel if that were you, "dorothy".
Gaza started the war. They can end the war by releasing all the hostages NOW. They won't, so Israel will rescue their citizens. You will be left by the side wringing your hands.
Jews under the Nazis were widely accused across the West at the time of aiding their own cruel treatment through being passive. Supposedly. As if they were in a position to fight. They were asked why they did not stand up for themselves. Which was a truly ridiculous question, under the circumstances.
Israeli Jews have taken the stance they will never be mocked again for not fighting back when it is required. I cannot blame them. They set reasonable boundaries. If adversaries intentionally break those bounds and attack their people, as they did, the Israeli Jews have every right to put a stop to it.
The whole point of the state of Israel was that Jews would never again stand in line to be loaded onto cattle cars to be sent to an unknown fate. They must stand up for themselves or die.
I fully agree with you, Iris. The Jews and the state of Israel have my support. They were made tragic scapegoats in Hitler's Europe, but they are standing up against that now. Which they have every right to do.
Thank you, too, btw, for your unflagging support of my posts. Much appreciated.
What "we're getting in Gaza" is an unprecedented low ratio of civilian/militant deaths, especially considering the dense urban environment, Hamas' habit of embedding themselves among civilians (a war crime), Hamas' habit of recruiting teenagers (a war crime), and Hamas making civilian deaths their strategy.
What I find abhorrent is that the so-called liberal West insists Israel should act within a complete new set of rules, intended just for them, while any adversary is free to pursue war under pre-medieval laws.
History supports both your two basic points: 1) Islam will not self-moderate as other great religions have done, and 2) where ever Muslims concentrate within other civilizations, disorder follows - it's not an ideology that can be integrated/bridged
First our American friends have to get rid of the heir to Biden. Iran behaved itself when Trump was in the White House and will again. The whole world will sleep sounder in their beds with Trump back in charge.
@Bill Heath "jihad is ... the internal struggle to purify the soul, not to struggle against others"
----------
Facts on the ground say otherwise. Historically, wherever Jihadi muslims appear there is jihad upon the infidels until the occupied space is fully muslimized; or the muslims are driven out.
Islam is not a religion of peace. It is a religion of expansion and forced conversion of infidels followed by full submission, death, or exile.
Very witty... and in the final analysis irrelevant. The nations of Islam are bye & large (fun fact: an age-of-sail nautical term) expansionist, violent, oppressive and intolerant of non-muslims; and by their nations stated policies and political acts manifested are behaving as such.
While I am a strong immigration restrictionist I doubt if an intelligent alien surveying the earth right now, or even in the last few centuries, or even in the last few decades, would see Islamism as the biggest imperial force.
In any case every time we are encouraged to hate islam, or Islamist ideologues, some secular ruler is toppled with the help of Islamists, cheered on by the anti Islamic sheep. Of course I doubt if one in ten know that Saddam, Gaddafi, or Assad are secular or not.
Islamism is a cancer. Everything it touches turns to shit. It's time our western leaders stop pretending, stop pleasing the radical progressives, stop simping for terrorists, stop apologizing for rapists. Until they don't, we will not a see a real change. And most importantly, Islam needs to change it's ways. Denounce terrorism. Denounce imperialism. Denounce sharia, kalifate or whatever fantasy of grandeur they have in mind.
If Islam was practiced by white men of European descent it would be considered far right extremism and there would be government programs in every western nation to root it out.
There would not, these idiots are willingly complicit. Watch Kamala for 15 minutes and tell me she is not a complete moron.
Islam will not change. Subjugating / converting / eliminating infidels is one of its foundational principles, written directly into its source documents and woven through its covenants.
I remember when Christopher Hitchens and, later, Sam Harris sounded this warning. Naturally, they were denounced as racist xenophobes and Islamophobes. The mealymouthed apologists in the "reformed" or allegedly moderate Muslim camp have been running cover for their fundamentalists all the while, giving the impression that Islam is reformable when it is not. Besides, the UK and Europe can't wait for reform, even if it were possible.
So the real enemy is not the Islamists because their aims are clear, but the secular or moderate Muslims who are too stupid to realize they are part of an evil religion?
Fundamentalist Muslims are indeed the enemy, and those Muslims who give lip service to reform but have no agency to enact it are useful idiots, as the commies used to say, or, to be charitable, pawns in a game they have no real interest or motivation to quit.
I'm operating under the theory that God need only 'flip a switch' inside them and then the logic that they employed in "embracing" will invert to REPULSION. The "Idea" is to create an environment where no individual makes a VICTIM of any other individual. This is done by BECKONING, not clubbing. It is EASY to recognize evil when you understand that it DOES use a club and it FORCES YOU TO PARTICIPATE.
Our recently elected idiotic socialist government wants to bring in laws to prevent any kind of discussion, never mind criticism, of Islam and its followers.
Religion is about compulsion and force, nothing new to see here.
The problem here is of course pleasing foreigners into your country. They do not have more rights than the citizens. The law is the law. Engaging in riots is not permissible. Women cannot be subjugated. All laws are to be followed regardless of religion. If you don’t like it, leave the country.
Very similar in the USA. There are two sets of laws. This contributes to the hollowing out of the society.
Our world is a mess. Our Western culture and civilization is crumbling before our very eyes thanks to the feckless people we vote for.
Speaking for myself, I didnt vote Lemocrat!
You mean the FECKLESS PEOPLE WE HAVE TO CHOOSE FROM. They all seem to come from acedemia and haven't put on a yoke and pulled a load a SINGLE DAY IN THEIR LIVES. A prerequisite of holding office should be that you have to come from WORKING a career for a minimum of 10 years.
Intelligent commentary on the current situation, by an Iraqi immigrant to the UK, a self-identified Muslim
https://www.thefp.com/p/british-establishment-migration
These are the Muslims I knew when I was a cab driver in Sacramento. They kept their shops and played by the rules and kicked soccer balls around and ate hamburgers and sent their children to public school where the kids weren't known for giving everyone else problems.
The US curdled and went sour after the Iraq invasion- meaner, more trigger-happy, more alienated, more addicted, more polarized. The 2008 mortgage collapse made that even worse. But neither of those situations are the fault of ordinary Muslims living in the US.
But the US isn't the UK, which is currently getting buried by newcomers- disproportionately young single males. I have to wonder how many of them decided to settle in the UK after being given the bums rush by other European countries. Large cohorts of young single males are society's nightmare. (As I noted in the pages of The Atlantic in 2015 when Angela Merkel opened up the borders of Germany to a wholesale flood of immigrants- fwiw, largely a rolling 2nd and 3rd order consequence of the US-led adventure in Iraq.)
But whatever the case, increased numbers of human beings always lead to logistics problems. Food, clothing, shelter, energy and water use, schooling, productive employment, achieving the goal of pitching in to contribute more than you take away. Almost everyone is both a giver and a taker. The problems show up when there's more taking than giving. And the more newcomers that show up and the faster it happens, the more criminality, antisocial conduct and tension there is.
NYC in the 1880s and 1890s was no picnic, either. https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Heroic_Gangster/VtK7fVWHKVMC?hl=en
Contending with millions of newcomers a year is tough enough for the US as it is. An estimated 2.6 million in 2022. But the continental US has around 3,110,000 square miles of territory, and the UK has an area of only 94,300 square miles. And net immigration to the UK in 2022 was 734,000. Total births in the UK in 2022 605, 479.
Islamism- fanaticism that insists on politicizing a sectarian community- definitely exacerbates the problems. But the basic problem would show up no matter the "identity", due to the numbers. A big crowd of newcomers showing up all at once always leans too hard on the locals. Just opening up the gates is disaster economics. No matter the particular economic ideology.
Maybe I am misunderstanding your comment. Many of those rioting are white born-in-England Englanders. They also have to follow the laws of the land or be told to "leave the country"?
It is a political movement disguised as a religion.
Islam will never change. People must reject it.
You're right. That will be the only way we see it dissolve.
Islam is essentially the opposite of Christianity. Instead of Love thy neighbor it is kill thy neighbor if they disagree with any of your beliefs. They cannot do as you suggest "Denounce terrorism" because that is a main part of their 'religion' as taught in the Koran and other writings.
I assume you mean those Christians who burned heretics at the stake and brutalized those who opposed them. Religion is the enemy and Islam is not alone in this.
I hate this moronic response of ‘You People’.
Christians don’t fucking burn anyone ‘at the stake’ in our modern world but ISLAMISTS certainly rape, torture, maim, kill, dismember, disembowel, burn, and otherwise mutilate who ever they fucking choose to.
I will give you that religion is a force of division outside of itself but that’s it: enough of the ‘but look what (insert group) did/does!’.
Inform yourself of Islam - it is INCOMPATIBLE WITH THE REST OF HUMANITY, and it’s NOT A RELIGION.
It’s a death cult, followed religiously.
Some members are nice and helpful and egalitarian, even kind toward others….but their basic tenet is that ISLAM WILL RULE THE WORLD.
When the call comes to make that happen, every Muslim will attend.
Wow, you really should see how atheistic regimes behave.
The discussion, feel free to correct me if I’m wrong is about the hear and now. Not ancient history that you are quoting. If you’re going down that path Islam has a very nasty ancient history. Let’s stick to the present. Opps almost forgot about the churches burned. In some cases including their congregation going on at present.
Islam, as seen in strict countries such as Iran, is as nasty as any historical events. Even "moderate" regimes such as Qatar and UAE are only moderate as long as you behave, do as you are told and never argue.
It's not 2003, get with the spirit of the times.
Britain led the Western world into an Age of Liberalism.... and is now leading the Western world out of it again (via hyper 'liberal' Wokism) and into a new Dark Age. The Wokies are in for a shock when they finally get the full on reality of the 'multicultural' mayhem they so richly deserve.
Every cloud ...
There is much about Israel that I do not admire , especially right now. But one thing that is insisted upon if you move there and there are many Jewish folks who moved there from all over the world with totally different cultures, one thing you must learn Hebrew and settle into the culture that is already there. Unfortunately this can also mean what we're now getting in Gaza so there is perhaps no perfect answer. But I do think we can require some standards when folks move into a totally different culture. I live now in Mexico and I am told constantly that I am a guest in their country and that if I don't like what is going on here I need to move to where I will be happy. Maybe that is the message we need to tell all immigrants who move into a foreign country and want to change it to what they left.
"Unfortunately this can also mean what we're now getting in Gaza"
--------
The Muslims view any non-Islamic nation state in the Islamic World (as they define it) as an abomination - a modern day crusader state (yes, a 1000 years later they are still upset about the Crusades). As such (being animated by fervent religious beliefs) they are willing to die (and take their family with them) in the struggle to extirpate the "cancer" of infidels amongst them.
Hamas could just surrender, like the Germans & Japanese sensibly did when they realized they could not win. They sensibly chose to not allow/facilitate further destruction of their people and place. They surrendered, and then got on to the business of rebuilding their destroyed society and eventually thrived in peace with their conquerers.
Hamas (apparently with strong support by Gazans) will not surrender even though Gaza is increasingly reduced to a pile of rubble, so Israel must press on. Until... what, i don't know).
I do know that what Golda Meir said about peace in the middle east seems to be true. "We will have peace with the Arabs when they love their children more than they hate the Jews"
I admire everything about Israel. They have the guts to defend their nation; the West does not. They bar jihadists from immigrating; the West welcomes jihadists as immigrants, whether legal or illegal.
Gaza initiated a war with a barbaric attack on a peace festival and kidnapping, mutilation, torture, rape, and murder of hundreds of additional victims. On the following link, you can watch the Gazans cutting a baby out of a pregnant woman's stomach: https://granitegrok.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/cutting-baby-out.mp4
I wonder how you would feel if that were you, "dorothy".
Gaza started the war. They can end the war by releasing all the hostages NOW. They won't, so Israel will rescue their citizens. You will be left by the side wringing your hands.
Jews under the Nazis were widely accused across the West at the time of aiding their own cruel treatment through being passive. Supposedly. As if they were in a position to fight. They were asked why they did not stand up for themselves. Which was a truly ridiculous question, under the circumstances.
Israeli Jews have taken the stance they will never be mocked again for not fighting back when it is required. I cannot blame them. They set reasonable boundaries. If adversaries intentionally break those bounds and attack their people, as they did, the Israeli Jews have every right to put a stop to it.
The whole point of the state of Israel was that Jews would never again stand in line to be loaded onto cattle cars to be sent to an unknown fate. They must stand up for themselves or die.
I fully agree with you, Iris. The Jews and the state of Israel have my support. They were made tragic scapegoats in Hitler's Europe, but they are standing up against that now. Which they have every right to do.
Thank you, too, btw, for your unflagging support of my posts. Much appreciated.
"I admire everything about Israel. They have the guts to defend their nation; the West does not."
The West needs badly to learn from Israel in this respect. To stand up for their own nations. Before they have none left to stand up for.
What "we're getting in Gaza" is an unprecedented low ratio of civilian/militant deaths, especially considering the dense urban environment, Hamas' habit of embedding themselves among civilians (a war crime), Hamas' habit of recruiting teenagers (a war crime), and Hamas making civilian deaths their strategy.
What I find abhorrent is that the so-called liberal West insists Israel should act within a complete new set of rules, intended just for them, while any adversary is free to pursue war under pre-medieval laws.
Well said.
Islam isn't going to change. As the number of Muslims increase their violent behavior will increase. The time is very late.
History supports both your two basic points: 1) Islam will not self-moderate as other great religions have done, and 2) where ever Muslims concentrate within other civilizations, disorder follows - it's not an ideology that can be integrated/bridged
Crush Iran before it’s too late!
First our American friends have to get rid of the heir to Biden. Iran behaved itself when Trump was in the White House and will again. The whole world will sleep sounder in their beds with Trump back in charge.
Please stay in your countries. We truly don’t want you.
A misapplication of jihad is responsible for much of the problem. It is the internal struggle to purify the soul, not to struggle against others
@Bill Heath "jihad is ... the internal struggle to purify the soul, not to struggle against others"
----------
Facts on the ground say otherwise. Historically, wherever Jihadi muslims appear there is jihad upon the infidels until the occupied space is fully muslimized; or the muslims are driven out.
Islam is not a religion of peace. It is a religion of expansion and forced conversion of infidels followed by full submission, death, or exile.
As Robert Spencer would ask, how did hundreds of millions of Muslims get so confused about their own religion? Why won't they listen to you instead?
Very witty... and in the final analysis irrelevant. The nations of Islam are bye & large (fun fact: an age-of-sail nautical term) expansionist, violent, oppressive and intolerant of non-muslims; and by their nations stated policies and political acts manifested are behaving as such.
It appears you missed the tongue-in-cheek aspect of my comment.
It would not be the first time of being informed that I missed the point of someone's observation. I stand corrected.
My soul does not need "purifying" by some random and imaginary authority.
If you live in an Islamic state your opinion has no validity. Been there, done that, got the T shirt.
While I am a strong immigration restrictionist I doubt if an intelligent alien surveying the earth right now, or even in the last few centuries, or even in the last few decades, would see Islamism as the biggest imperial force.
In any case every time we are encouraged to hate islam, or Islamist ideologues, some secular ruler is toppled with the help of Islamists, cheered on by the anti Islamic sheep. Of course I doubt if one in ten know that Saddam, Gaddafi, or Assad are secular or not.