Can we stop using “ homeless “ when there are shelters available and start using “ vagrants ?”
Homeless is a family burned out of an apartment with no friends or family to help. Doesn’t apply to vagrants particularly when there are plenty of places where they can go. Let’s control the language
I had read that Neely was schizophrenic-- if he was indeed diagnosed and behaved as such, he should NEVER have been freely roaming streets and subways where he could easily harm others; he really had no notion of acting on "his own accord". I agree with Rufo that both men were used for pathological, ideological means and ends. We must get the mentally deranged into treatment or a long-term hospital to keep them safe and secure AND to keep everyday people safe from the ravages of the insane, while weeding out the Dafna Yoran types from holding law degrees that they abuse.
I’ll never forget the decade when I was deciding whether to become a psychiatrist versus a neurologist (we are both “boarded” by the American Board of Psychiatry and Neurology) and chose the latter. America was closing Psychiatric Hospitals because, we were told, we had medications to control schizophrenia, bipolar disorders and the like, and therefore why “lock up” mental patients? Terrible mistake—which has led to such human tragedies described here by Mr Rufo.
As you must be aware , Joe, the Schizophrenia medications often do more harm than good. The adverse effects can be appalling.
What I question is how the US can be dedicated to freedom, but lock up persons who have not committed any crime, as was suggested rather blithely here. I can see doing so if a crime has been committed, of course, but because of the potential of a crime? How does this tally with the belief in freedom? What are the legalities? And what would stop mis-use of this locking-up persons for non-crimes?
I agree that these psychiatric medications have been a disappointment with respect to benefits and side effects. It was the liberal medical establishment that claimed admission to a “mental hospital” was anti-freedom and they pushed to have these hospitals closed. (TB sanitariums were also being closed as well but INH (isoniazid) and other medicines became available and were very effective at eradicating TB. As a medical student at UVA we visited the last of 6 TB sanitariums to close. While talking to a young man who got INH too late in his TB course, he suddenly started spurting blood that pulsated with his heart rate. He died within a minute, blood splattered all over). I learned very early in my career that medical disease is more treatable than psychiatric disorders.
Sanitariums for TB are a very different kettle of fish than mental asylums. Besides which, TB can be proven, whereas "mental illness" not so much. It can also be mis-used in false allegations. We have seen a truckload of false allegations used by the Democrats against their targets for instance. Although they usually go for allegations of sexual abuse or financial impropriety.
Too bad all forms of insanity are now considered to be medical diseases waiting for a "cure." I think this delusion was amplified by the explosion of the psychotropic drug market in the 1960s.
Thomas Szasz was right. However, the fact that most forms of insanity cannot be traced to a physical cause lent some weight to the case for deinstitutionalization as a cost-saving measure.
Ever since, the insane have bounced between jails, hospitals, and the streets.
It's time to bring back legally enforced institutionalization. The problem is, of course, how to avoid using the courts to unjustly lock up people who are not legitimately insane or whose forms of insanity do not cause the madman to act violently or in a habitually criminal way. We can't yet lock people up for being a perpetual public nuisance, as attractive as that proposition might be to some. (Edit: As far as I know, this isn't a crime that is punishable by jail time. Also, we ought to get out of the habit of using the term "mentally ill" for reasons I allude to in my second paragraph.)
The NYC Shelter system consists of hotels that are administered by notoriously corrupt non profits like Acacia Networks. The food is not edible but NYC pays millions for the slop. No one has to go to any counseling for anything or receive mental health services, drug use and drinking is rampant, as is untreated mental illness. People coming out of prison act out all over the place despite security guards, the director of one of Acacia Networks would not allow NYPD onto the premises. They have no interest in getting clients into permanent housing. There are people in these hotel/shelters for five, six years. Neely was out on the streets because he probably wouldn't comply with the rules at the shelter such as be in your room between 11pm and 4am, don't fight with the staff, don't steal, don't burn anything in your room, etc. Neely wanted to be on the streets to be closer to illegal drugs.
Yes Lostina. The "Homeless" are an tough problem. On one hand you have druggies and mentally unstable who need help. On the other hand, the gov institutions that help are not in sync with helping much given it reduces their head count. My brother in-law, who worked in an NGO that helped the homeless, complained when they would leave. Perhaps we need a two-sided punch; (1) charities who are motivated to help those in need but do not depend on it for funding, and (2) laws that lock up vagrants unless they get care from an approved charity.
Problem is, then you have to re-assess the American ideal of freedom. If you can lock people away without them having committed any crime. What principle does that come under?
Besides which, there is no good medical treatment for Schizophrenia.
I believe he committed over 40 crimes in a 5 year period. He wasn’t held accountable by the prosecutor so people suffered. The last crime before his death he broke the orbital bone after beating a 67yr. Old woman in the face.
With a record like that, protecting the public needs to trump any compassion for Neely as a human being with a mental illness. Lock him up first, and try to cure him second.
Do you think to place someone in long-term care/hospital is equivalent to putting them in jail? How "free" is a mentally ill person on the streets? If the case is so severe, what is the alternative? A care home does not have to be institutional in a cruel and creepy way. Same goes for prisons. But when there are those that cannot care for themselves and suffer and/or commit heinous crimes, society must deal with it and not ignore it like we have been. And you are likely correct; there is no good treatment currently for schizophrenia. Or maybe there is a way to treat it that we don't know of yet or Big Pharma is hiding.
It is true that "a care home does not have to be institutional in a cruel and creepy way," but, unfortunately, that is an accurate description of many of the closed insane asylums and a fact that lent weight to the arguments for "deinstitutionalization" in the first place.
Charlotte, I think you are being naive here. You seem to think that forced lock-ups in long-term hospitals must be a lovely picnic.
Where do we draw the line? Depression is a mental illness. And yet a majority of adult Americans say they have suffered from this. Do we lock-up high-functioning Autistics> Oops....there goes Elon Musk and many of the geniuses developing our world.
So you think that people can be locked-up simply for the potential of committing a crime? Sounds like Communist countries. Well any human being has that potential. Look at the well brought up and well educated young man from the wealthy family who has just been arrested for murder of the Healthcare Executive.
Saying that Pharma might have a cure for Schizophrenia but they are hiding it is simply not believable.
Well, that was a big leap from my comment about schizophrenics needing long term care to you thinking I am talking about people with depression or autism! I live in a city where I often witness people going through extreme episodes of psychotic breaks on the streets. They are in tatters, flailing about, screaming, cursing, sometimes lunging at passersby -- these are the people I am speaking about, such as Jordan Neely. Not any of the others you oddly include. Schizophrenics deserve a warm place out of the rain or cold, a calm and safe environment, the dignity to bathe and be free from lice, etc, have decent meals and 24/7 care if they need it. What's wrong with that? You want them to continue to live on the street in dehumanizing conditions? I doubt that. And, duh, of course I do not endorse "locking people up for the potential of committing a crime". That's not a well thought out comment.
Big Pharma, by the way, is very unethical in regards to their business model; they are not interested in the least in seeing people well because well people don't need drugs, so it is not so unbelievable that this very powerful industry could and does block research/treatments.
At least a good percentage are. But Tacoma officials and ill-informed neighbors will make you feel guilty for saying that! Let's keep pretending it's a housing issue.
The meth heads and fentanyl zombies just a couple of bus stops away in Sumner are just that. Unhomed is one thing. Sexually molesting fire hydrants, drinking from the dog water bowl outside my daughter’s office and then wandering around in traffic screaming obscenities on a loop is a whole other matter.
From Wikipedia: “Tramps and hobos are commonly lumped together, but in their own sight they are sharply differentiated. A hobo or bo is simply a migratory laborer; he may take some longish holidays, but soon or late he returns to work. A tramp never works if it can be avoided; he simply travels. Lower than either is the bum, who neither works nor travels, save when impelled to motion by the police.”
If I recall correctly, Anderson grew up in poverty and personally experience life as a seasonal casual laborer and ranch hand; he was taken under the wing of a kind farm family in Utah who encouraged him to complete his secondary education.
Tramp: traveling bum. (Usually alcoholic/malingering former hobo.)
Bum: sedentary (former) tramp.
The term street people seems applicable to Anderson’s categories of bum and tramp.
There is a large marginal economy associated with the up to 60,000 men Anderson describes as populating Chicago over winter.
The very best article I read on this was from the American conservative, entitled “cultural Marxism liturgical language”. Here’s a snippet:
“Language is transformed: it is no longer used to communicate or express, but to conceal a contrived continuity between the system and reality. Ideological language is charged with the magical role of forcing reality to conform to a particular vision of the world. It is a liturgical language for which every utterance points to its speaker’s adherence to the system, and it summons the interlocutor to adhere as well. Code words thus constitute threats and figures of power.”
"Penny is not merely not guilty, he is an unambiguous hero, who correctly understood and carried out his duty, with great courage, in a dangerous situation. He believed that it was his duty to use his training to protect women and children from a violent individual with a previous record of subway assault, and he was right to do so." BRILLIANT.
Speaking as a (checking..Yup :-) ) A Guy, we all want to believe we'd do the same, in a similar situation. We all want to believe we would. You could say we are hard wired to Act.
How many stories have been printed where the guy Taking Action is the one arrested? I don't know but I suspected A Lot.
I could not sit back and watch innocents be hurt. The guilt I would feel would be worse than the consequences for hurting the perpetuator. In high school, as a really large lineman, I derived similar satisfaction to sacking a QB by protecting a kid who had been picked on by even some of my teammates.
We all have that sense of what is right, but many sublimate it all too easily. The attitude of ‘I don’t want to get involved’ or let the authorities handle it ruins the moral fabric of our society.
That's because you're A Guy. How many movies have been made about a guy who says ENOUGH!? Guys have fantasies about being The Hero. We're hard wired that way. No one likes/respects the coward.
I believe men and women see things differently, so the ‘guy’ thing has relevance. Stepping in to a situation probably is probably related to several factors. In my case, it is probably influenced by Hollywood depictions during the ‘50’s, but the factor which would explain any variability would be the modeling of my parents and my early affiliations in cohort groups. I remember when it was a matter of pride to become an Eagle Scout.
I want a UK equivalent of Penny to be in my carriage when this happens on the Tube. So many lowlifes carry knives these days that people have become hesitant to pitch in.
I am glad this is over for Daniel Penny. Nobody on the left talks about the fact that some of Neely’s victims that day were going to be other blacks and minorities. Somehow their lives mean less than the life of a deranged drug addict criminal whom the justice system allowed to be free and freely victimize those around him. Jewish tradition teaches that to be kind to the cruel, is to be cruel to the innocent. I hope the U.S. has turned the page on restorative “justice” which is not justice at all, and turned the page on allowing people to burn and riot as if they had a right to do so, a right to terrorize the rest of us, a right to get away with anything they do. I am so glad that President Trump is back in charge (it already feels so!) but we citizens need to keep our eyes open and prevent these excesses from ever coming back. Vote all these “progressives” “liberals” race baiters out!!!
"To be kind to the cruel is to be cruel to the innocent"—I think we as a society have forgotten that.
And you're absolutely right that citizens need to vote these people out. We should celebrate a just verdict, of course, but also use our ballots to create a world we want to live in.
Sadly it's not over for Daniel Penny as he has to deal with the ridiculous civil suit and who knows what other ridiculous suits the BLM types will pursue. But completely agree that a page has been turned and we're moving in the right direction
Apparently, there’s no cause of action for malicious prosecution in NY. That’s a shame, since this is a textbook case of it. New York needs a law to hold these politically motivated prosecutors accountable.
Yes Give Send Go has been fundraising for his legal defense.
I posted the link.
I see the attorney’s haven’t updated it yet, but they will. Please encourage others to donate something. This young mans life has been turned up side down, will he be able to get a job ? Look what’s been done to Kyle Rittenhouse.
If only contemporary American Jews paid any attention of Jewish tradition there might be some wisdom in their political leanings. The misguided (to be generous) prosecutor in the Penny trial epitomizes contemporary leftist secular Judaism.
Unfortunately it is not over for Mr. Penny as he faces a civil trial that could potentially bankrupt him. Given a far less onerous evidence standard in finding liability as opposed to criminality, I am very concerned. I earnestly hope for a similar outcome.
These racist liberals (and the insidious bigotry of low expectations is absolutely hard core racism) don’t care about the perpetrator or his victims of any demographic. They care about power. Self righteousness grants them the moral cover they need to ensure they are the “correct” holder of power.
Great summary, Rufo. Indeed, all of my friends that live in the managerial-class playground of South Minneapolis(many black) are done with this shyte and are revolting. Most have been in these beautiful neighborhoods have been there for generations and have awoken after being carjacked and assaulted. Many are leaving, but a majority is pushing back. Finally.
All respect to you, and of course I'm glad for this outcome. But we're missing something important here.
The humiliation of a trial IS the point. Sure, a guilty verdict is a plus. They'd have loved to see this guy rot in jail like Chauvin. But the damage is still done.
From the moment he was arrested, a doubt was planted in his mind: "Did I do the right thing? Would I do it again?" I don't care what he says publicly. He's a human being. At some point, this thought must have come into his mind.
In violent/potentially violent confrontations, a moment's doubt / hesitation means the difference between life or death. That doubt, that hesitation has now been planted in the minds of every single decent man who even casually followed this story. That was the point.
I'm sorry. I'm not trying to be a downer. I am glad for his verdict. The man deserved a hero's welcome, not a criminal's treatment. But we cannot forget the mental war being waged against us every minute of every day. This conditioning is more dangerous and effective than all the phony trials, protests, and riots put together.
Couldn't have been said any better. This is the real, lasting effect of such sham prosecutions on society. "The process is the punishment" is a commonplace precisely for circumstances like the Penny and Chauvin cases. Penny is the latest iteration of a long line of "examples" going back at least as far as Bernard Goetz.
Derek Chauvin didn't murder anyone. there, I said it. He was on trial for being a white ;man , as was Daniel Penny. Feral, deranged and dangerous blacks in NYC are permitted to roam the streets and subways and nothing is done about their uncivil behavior. When I go on the subway, I carefully scan the car for enemy combatants. I assess the other passengers. thinking to myself, Are they going to assault me? If so will I be able to stop them and inflict hurt back? Is my screwdriver too deep in my purse to access in case I need it? Will the perpetrator be too close to me? Oh is that a pitbull? Let me run to the next car.
Speaking of Chauvin, I will not consider the corner turned until he is out early. He was not guilty due to the facts of the case not meeting the elements of the crime in that state. No one is imprisoned for 20 years for bad policing.
“ the deep, psychological roots of leftist activism appears to be an unwillingness to accept reality as it is, a morbid obsession with its defects, and paranoid tendency to exaggerate them.”
Edward Fesser, the post liberal order Substack
And another chestnut from the good professor, his definition of woke:
“ a paranoid delusional hyper-egalitarian mindset that seems to see oppression and injustice where they do not exist or greatly exaggerate them where they do exist.”
More:
“ In general, wokeness like Catherism - the gnostic heresy in southern Europe from 1143 to 1321 - is essentially about the radical subversion of normal human life in the name of a paranoid metaphysical delusion. It is fuelled by a seething envy and resentment directed against the natural order of things”.
"It is fueled by a seething envy and resentment directed against the natural order of things." Great summary—that's exactly what we've seen in Penny's case.
Derek Chauvin is a martyr. He had no animus against George Floyd and repeatedly called for an ambulance which was late in arriving due to municipal incompetence. He did not kill George Floyd which is evident to anyone who has seen the entire episode, not just edited parts. George Floyd was a canker on society who was slowly dying from his many addictions and poor general health. If the Governor were not Tim Walz he would probably be pardoned. Maybe given a civic medal.
A USA President cannot pardon a crime that is a State crime. Federal crimes , yes but not criminal acts subject to States .
Sad the knowledge of the general public has about all things Gov. and financial. Public education of the USA is about as lousy as it can get. Thanks to , yes you guessed it, Government run education. Controlled by Gov. teacher's unions. Gov. workers unions never should have been allowed!
George Floyd was killing himself on the installment plan and finally succeeded. That's what addicts do, they want to take everyone and anyone in their path along on their suicide mission. Where are the people who sold him those drugs? Why aren't they on trial.?
The protests, looting , arson, destruction, civil unrest were disgusting.
Poor Mr. Chauvin. God Help Him. Why did so many people throw him under the bus? the freaking police unions and politicians were just climbing on his bones.
Floyd was yelling, "I can't breathe" when he was in the back of the squad car. That's why Chauvin removed him from the car and placed him on the ground. It was perfect Minnesota Police Manual protocol.
I hope justice has been reset. Danny Penny, thank God, was found not guilty. with that said, I do not know if I trust some cities where George Soros backed DAs still hold power. Alvin Bragg should be pushed out as he allows criminals to go free
1) the grifters - they'll just change names and victimologies to find a new racket.
2) the looters - run of the mill criminals who will find a new cover for their theft.
3) the believers - out to destroy Western capitalism using Marxism and postmodernism.
I don't know what the mix is. I doubt anyone does. Their current race-essentialist iteration MAY have jumped the shark, but none of these groups are going away.
Very true—it'll take more than a court case to get rid of those groups you mentioned. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on how to stamp them out. It feels to me a little like the mythical hydra—cut off the head of one iteration and another pops up to replace it.
I think "stamp them out" is the wrong way to think about it. 2 of those 3 are basically crooks or conmen. You don't stamp those out, but you can certainly make it harder for them to ply their trade just by enforcing a culture of law and order and virtue. That's a tall order today, but I think it could be done.
The last group can't be incentivized out of existence. The groupies can be punished sufficiently (bankrupted, socially ostracized, loss of professional licenses) to alter their ways. But committed revolutionaries can not be reformed. For those people, this is a war, and they must be treated as enemy combatants: imprisoned, exiled, or executed.
I respect if that seems extreme, and I really hope the last group is small, since getting rid of a large group of revolutionaries is almost impossible -- ask Lenin. But I don't think there's another choice.
This highly appropriate act was necessary in light of the fact that many minorities use the color of their skin to justify acts of violence and intimidation against the people who respect our country.
Notice what Canada’s leaders are doing to their gun owning citizens. They “also” have created a country where citizens can easily become victims.
Charles Fain Lehman has a great article in City Journal (Contra “Root Causes”) on the consequences of the progressive model to criminal justice
> reformers saw the system not as a way to deter or control crime directly but instead to undo society’s harmful influence on the criminal—a therapeutic approach that often goes hand in hand with root-causes thinking.
> During the postwar era, the punitive components of the criminal-justice system withered. The incarceration rate declined between 1961 and 1976; by 1981, murderers averaged a sentence of just five years, while rapists got 3.4
> ... rights-focused criminal-justice system should make crime a nonissue. So what happened?
> “Crime soared,” Wilson wrote in a 1973 Atlantic essay that later became the first chapter of his 1975 book Thinking About Crime. “It did not just increase a little; it rose at a faster rate and to higher levels than at any time since the 1930s and, in some categories, to higher levels than any experienced in this century.”
The sad thing is that "restorative justice" was originally a very healthy concept, intended to encourage an offender to take responsibility for his crime not just to amorphous "society" but to his actual victims, and to restore that broken relationship. It's easier to dismiss the impact of your actions when you think it's "The Man" that got hit rather than the grandmother down the street, or the storekeeper who's working 14-hour days to provide the things you want. But there's very little restoration in what now takes the name of restorative justice, just as our reformatories don't reform, our correctional institutions don't correct, and our penitentiaries produce no penitents. We seem to oscillate between "throw away the key" and "it's all society's fault," rather than encouraging responsibility and choosing a life of honor.
Penny chose honor at risk to himself, both in the moment and as the hyenas chased him. I salute the Marine.
Can we stop using “ homeless “ when there are shelters available and start using “ vagrants ?”
Homeless is a family burned out of an apartment with no friends or family to help. Doesn’t apply to vagrants particularly when there are plenty of places where they can go. Let’s control the language
Especially in this case, when Neely had been offered free housing and assistance and left the shelter of his own accord.
I had read that Neely was schizophrenic-- if he was indeed diagnosed and behaved as such, he should NEVER have been freely roaming streets and subways where he could easily harm others; he really had no notion of acting on "his own accord". I agree with Rufo that both men were used for pathological, ideological means and ends. We must get the mentally deranged into treatment or a long-term hospital to keep them safe and secure AND to keep everyday people safe from the ravages of the insane, while weeding out the Dafna Yoran types from holding law degrees that they abuse.
I’ll never forget the decade when I was deciding whether to become a psychiatrist versus a neurologist (we are both “boarded” by the American Board of Psychiatry and Neurology) and chose the latter. America was closing Psychiatric Hospitals because, we were told, we had medications to control schizophrenia, bipolar disorders and the like, and therefore why “lock up” mental patients? Terrible mistake—which has led to such human tragedies described here by Mr Rufo.
As a frequent flyer in multiple neurological specialties, thank you.
As you must be aware , Joe, the Schizophrenia medications often do more harm than good. The adverse effects can be appalling.
What I question is how the US can be dedicated to freedom, but lock up persons who have not committed any crime, as was suggested rather blithely here. I can see doing so if a crime has been committed, of course, but because of the potential of a crime? How does this tally with the belief in freedom? What are the legalities? And what would stop mis-use of this locking-up persons for non-crimes?
I agree that these psychiatric medications have been a disappointment with respect to benefits and side effects. It was the liberal medical establishment that claimed admission to a “mental hospital” was anti-freedom and they pushed to have these hospitals closed. (TB sanitariums were also being closed as well but INH (isoniazid) and other medicines became available and were very effective at eradicating TB. As a medical student at UVA we visited the last of 6 TB sanitariums to close. While talking to a young man who got INH too late in his TB course, he suddenly started spurting blood that pulsated with his heart rate. He died within a minute, blood splattered all over). I learned very early in my career that medical disease is more treatable than psychiatric disorders.
Sanitariums for TB are a very different kettle of fish than mental asylums. Besides which, TB can be proven, whereas "mental illness" not so much. It can also be mis-used in false allegations. We have seen a truckload of false allegations used by the Democrats against their targets for instance. Although they usually go for allegations of sexual abuse or financial impropriety.
Too bad all forms of insanity are now considered to be medical diseases waiting for a "cure." I think this delusion was amplified by the explosion of the psychotropic drug market in the 1960s.
Thomas Szasz was right. However, the fact that most forms of insanity cannot be traced to a physical cause lent some weight to the case for deinstitutionalization as a cost-saving measure.
Ever since, the insane have bounced between jails, hospitals, and the streets.
It's time to bring back legally enforced institutionalization. The problem is, of course, how to avoid using the courts to unjustly lock up people who are not legitimately insane or whose forms of insanity do not cause the madman to act violently or in a habitually criminal way. We can't yet lock people up for being a perpetual public nuisance, as attractive as that proposition might be to some. (Edit: As far as I know, this isn't a crime that is punishable by jail time. Also, we ought to get out of the habit of using the term "mentally ill" for reasons I allude to in my second paragraph.)
As a 2019 article on the "Cal Matters" website argues, "Somehow, we must find a middle ground between incarceration, and untreated, unsupervised and at-risk mentally ill people" (https://calmatters.org/commentary/2019/03/hard-truths-about-deinstitutionalization-then-and-now/
Was he denied bail?
The NYC Shelter system consists of hotels that are administered by notoriously corrupt non profits like Acacia Networks. The food is not edible but NYC pays millions for the slop. No one has to go to any counseling for anything or receive mental health services, drug use and drinking is rampant, as is untreated mental illness. People coming out of prison act out all over the place despite security guards, the director of one of Acacia Networks would not allow NYPD onto the premises. They have no interest in getting clients into permanent housing. There are people in these hotel/shelters for five, six years. Neely was out on the streets because he probably wouldn't comply with the rules at the shelter such as be in your room between 11pm and 4am, don't fight with the staff, don't steal, don't burn anything in your room, etc. Neely wanted to be on the streets to be closer to illegal drugs.
Yes Lostina. The "Homeless" are an tough problem. On one hand you have druggies and mentally unstable who need help. On the other hand, the gov institutions that help are not in sync with helping much given it reduces their head count. My brother in-law, who worked in an NGO that helped the homeless, complained when they would leave. Perhaps we need a two-sided punch; (1) charities who are motivated to help those in need but do not depend on it for funding, and (2) laws that lock up vagrants unless they get care from an approved charity.
Problem is, then you have to re-assess the American ideal of freedom. If you can lock people away without them having committed any crime. What principle does that come under?
Besides which, there is no good medical treatment for Schizophrenia.
I believe he committed over 40 crimes in a 5 year period. He wasn’t held accountable by the prosecutor so people suffered. The last crime before his death he broke the orbital bone after beating a 67yr. Old woman in the face.
Sounds like Neely met the criminal definition then.
With a record like that, protecting the public needs to trump any compassion for Neely as a human being with a mental illness. Lock him up first, and try to cure him second.
Do you think to place someone in long-term care/hospital is equivalent to putting them in jail? How "free" is a mentally ill person on the streets? If the case is so severe, what is the alternative? A care home does not have to be institutional in a cruel and creepy way. Same goes for prisons. But when there are those that cannot care for themselves and suffer and/or commit heinous crimes, society must deal with it and not ignore it like we have been. And you are likely correct; there is no good treatment currently for schizophrenia. Or maybe there is a way to treat it that we don't know of yet or Big Pharma is hiding.
It is true that "a care home does not have to be institutional in a cruel and creepy way," but, unfortunately, that is an accurate description of many of the closed insane asylums and a fact that lent weight to the arguments for "deinstitutionalization" in the first place.
Charlotte, I think you are being naive here. You seem to think that forced lock-ups in long-term hospitals must be a lovely picnic.
Where do we draw the line? Depression is a mental illness. And yet a majority of adult Americans say they have suffered from this. Do we lock-up high-functioning Autistics> Oops....there goes Elon Musk and many of the geniuses developing our world.
So you think that people can be locked-up simply for the potential of committing a crime? Sounds like Communist countries. Well any human being has that potential. Look at the well brought up and well educated young man from the wealthy family who has just been arrested for murder of the Healthcare Executive.
Saying that Pharma might have a cure for Schizophrenia but they are hiding it is simply not believable.
Well, that was a big leap from my comment about schizophrenics needing long term care to you thinking I am talking about people with depression or autism! I live in a city where I often witness people going through extreme episodes of psychotic breaks on the streets. They are in tatters, flailing about, screaming, cursing, sometimes lunging at passersby -- these are the people I am speaking about, such as Jordan Neely. Not any of the others you oddly include. Schizophrenics deserve a warm place out of the rain or cold, a calm and safe environment, the dignity to bathe and be free from lice, etc, have decent meals and 24/7 care if they need it. What's wrong with that? You want them to continue to live on the street in dehumanizing conditions? I doubt that. And, duh, of course I do not endorse "locking people up for the potential of committing a crime". That's not a well thought out comment.
Big Pharma, by the way, is very unethical in regards to their business model; they are not interested in the least in seeing people well because well people don't need drugs, so it is not so unbelievable that this very powerful industry could and does block research/treatments.
Lock them up when they are a threat to themselves or others.
How about calling them criminal drug addicts?
At least a good percentage are. But Tacoma officials and ill-informed neighbors will make you feel guilty for saying that! Let's keep pretending it's a housing issue.
.
The meth heads and fentanyl zombies just a couple of bus stops away in Sumner are just that. Unhomed is one thing. Sexually molesting fire hydrants, drinking from the dog water bowl outside my daughter’s office and then wandering around in traffic screaming obscenities on a loop is a whole other matter.
We used to say “bums.” It wasn’t pejorative.
I'm old enough to remember "hoboes."
From Wikipedia: “Tramps and hobos are commonly lumped together, but in their own sight they are sharply differentiated. A hobo or bo is simply a migratory laborer; he may take some longish holidays, but soon or late he returns to work. A tramp never works if it can be avoided; he simply travels. Lower than either is the bum, who neither works nor travels, save when impelled to motion by the police.”
It’s a dynamic spiral.
The locus classicus is “Hobo: Sociology of the Homeless Man” Nels Anderson doctoral thesis, U Chicago Press, 1923.
No longer copyrighted. https://www.gutenberg.org/files/67300/67300-h/67300-h.htm
If I recall correctly, Anderson grew up in poverty and personally experience life as a seasonal casual laborer and ranch hand; he was taken under the wing of a kind farm family in Utah who encouraged him to complete his secondary education.
Tramp: traveling bum. (Usually alcoholic/malingering former hobo.)
Bum: sedentary (former) tramp.
The term street people seems applicable to Anderson’s categories of bum and tramp.
There is a large marginal economy associated with the up to 60,000 men Anderson describes as populating Chicago over winter.
I’ll bet there was a lot less mental illness in 1923.
Bum is a nice historical New York word. Fewer letters and syllables, too. Economical.
The very best article I read on this was from the American conservative, entitled “cultural Marxism liturgical language”. Here’s a snippet:
“Language is transformed: it is no longer used to communicate or express, but to conceal a contrived continuity between the system and reality. Ideological language is charged with the magical role of forcing reality to conform to a particular vision of the world. It is a liturgical language for which every utterance points to its speaker’s adherence to the system, and it summons the interlocutor to adhere as well. Code words thus constitute threats and figures of power.”
https://www.theamericanconservative.com/transgender-cultural-marxism-liturgical-language/
"Penny is not merely not guilty, he is an unambiguous hero, who correctly understood and carried out his duty, with great courage, in a dangerous situation. He believed that it was his duty to use his training to protect women and children from a violent individual with a previous record of subway assault, and he was right to do so." BRILLIANT.
Speaking as a (checking..Yup :-) ) A Guy, we all want to believe we'd do the same, in a similar situation. We all want to believe we would. You could say we are hard wired to Act.
How many stories have been printed where the guy Taking Action is the one arrested? I don't know but I suspected A Lot.
I could not sit back and watch innocents be hurt. The guilt I would feel would be worse than the consequences for hurting the perpetuator. In high school, as a really large lineman, I derived similar satisfaction to sacking a QB by protecting a kid who had been picked on by even some of my teammates.
We all have that sense of what is right, but many sublimate it all too easily. The attitude of ‘I don’t want to get involved’ or let the authorities handle it ruins the moral fabric of our society.
Exactly. Kitty Genovese concurs.
That's because you're A Guy. How many movies have been made about a guy who says ENOUGH!? Guys have fantasies about being The Hero. We're hard wired that way. No one likes/respects the coward.
I believe men and women see things differently, so the ‘guy’ thing has relevance. Stepping in to a situation probably is probably related to several factors. In my case, it is probably influenced by Hollywood depictions during the ‘50’s, but the factor which would explain any variability would be the modeling of my parents and my early affiliations in cohort groups. I remember when it was a matter of pride to become an Eagle Scout.
"I believe men and women see things differently,"
Understatement Of the Year!
I want a UK equivalent of Penny to be in my carriage when this happens on the Tube. So many lowlifes carry knives these days that people have become hesitant to pitch in.
When i tuned 11 my dad gave me a pocket knife an told me "Always carry one, it may come in handy." Decades Later I still carry one.
The Alpha male is the zenith of masculinity-manhood.
I am glad this is over for Daniel Penny. Nobody on the left talks about the fact that some of Neely’s victims that day were going to be other blacks and minorities. Somehow their lives mean less than the life of a deranged drug addict criminal whom the justice system allowed to be free and freely victimize those around him. Jewish tradition teaches that to be kind to the cruel, is to be cruel to the innocent. I hope the U.S. has turned the page on restorative “justice” which is not justice at all, and turned the page on allowing people to burn and riot as if they had a right to do so, a right to terrorize the rest of us, a right to get away with anything they do. I am so glad that President Trump is back in charge (it already feels so!) but we citizens need to keep our eyes open and prevent these excesses from ever coming back. Vote all these “progressives” “liberals” race baiters out!!!
"To be kind to the cruel is to be cruel to the innocent"—I think we as a society have forgotten that.
And you're absolutely right that citizens need to vote these people out. We should celebrate a just verdict, of course, but also use our ballots to create a world we want to live in.
Yes to this.
Sadly it's not over for Daniel Penny as he has to deal with the ridiculous civil suit and who knows what other ridiculous suits the BLM types will pursue. But completely agree that a page has been turned and we're moving in the right direction
Apparently, there’s no cause of action for malicious prosecution in NY. That’s a shame, since this is a textbook case of it. New York needs a law to hold these politically motivated prosecutors accountable.
And as seen in the E Jean Carroll case, the underlying crime doesn’t need to exist.
Well we can all pitch in to support his legal costs. He did this for us after all. Where do we sign up to help him????
Daniel Penny Legal Defense at GiveSendGo
I posted it...
https://www.givesendgo.com/daniel_penny
Wow. I just checked that link. Over $3M has been donated. He's gonna be okay.
Yes Give Send Go has been fundraising for his legal defense.
I posted the link.
I see the attorney’s haven’t updated it yet, but they will. Please encourage others to donate something. This young mans life has been turned up side down, will he be able to get a job ? Look what’s been done to Kyle Rittenhouse.
https://www.givesendgo.com/daniel_penny
Some high power attorney should take up Penny's case and file a counter suit against the criminal entity known as BLM!!
If only contemporary American Jews paid any attention of Jewish tradition there might be some wisdom in their political leanings. The misguided (to be generous) prosecutor in the Penny trial epitomizes contemporary leftist secular Judaism.
Unfortunately it is not over for Mr. Penny as he faces a civil trial that could potentially bankrupt him. Given a far less onerous evidence standard in finding liability as opposed to criminality, I am very concerned. I earnestly hope for a similar outcome.
These racist liberals (and the insidious bigotry of low expectations is absolutely hard core racism) don’t care about the perpetrator or his victims of any demographic. They care about power. Self righteousness grants them the moral cover they need to ensure they are the “correct” holder of power.
Well said, and Amen!
Great summary, Rufo. Indeed, all of my friends that live in the managerial-class playground of South Minneapolis(many black) are done with this shyte and are revolting. Most have been in these beautiful neighborhoods have been there for generations and have awoken after being carjacked and assaulted. Many are leaving, but a majority is pushing back. Finally.
That's great to hear. Much of this won't change until individuals decide they're tired of it and do something about it.
Personally, I perceive this development as an indication of the very desirable return back to societal normalcy!
From your mouth to God's ears.
Restorative justice: Euphemistic leftist speak for let 'em off easy.
All respect to you, and of course I'm glad for this outcome. But we're missing something important here.
The humiliation of a trial IS the point. Sure, a guilty verdict is a plus. They'd have loved to see this guy rot in jail like Chauvin. But the damage is still done.
From the moment he was arrested, a doubt was planted in his mind: "Did I do the right thing? Would I do it again?" I don't care what he says publicly. He's a human being. At some point, this thought must have come into his mind.
In violent/potentially violent confrontations, a moment's doubt / hesitation means the difference between life or death. That doubt, that hesitation has now been planted in the minds of every single decent man who even casually followed this story. That was the point.
I'm sorry. I'm not trying to be a downer. I am glad for his verdict. The man deserved a hero's welcome, not a criminal's treatment. But we cannot forget the mental war being waged against us every minute of every day. This conditioning is more dangerous and effective than all the phony trials, protests, and riots put together.
Couldn't have been said any better. This is the real, lasting effect of such sham prosecutions on society. "The process is the punishment" is a commonplace precisely for circumstances like the Penny and Chauvin cases. Penny is the latest iteration of a long line of "examples" going back at least as far as Bernard Goetz.
Derek Chauvin didn't murder anyone. there, I said it. He was on trial for being a white ;man , as was Daniel Penny. Feral, deranged and dangerous blacks in NYC are permitted to roam the streets and subways and nothing is done about their uncivil behavior. When I go on the subway, I carefully scan the car for enemy combatants. I assess the other passengers. thinking to myself, Are they going to assault me? If so will I be able to stop them and inflict hurt back? Is my screwdriver too deep in my purse to access in case I need it? Will the perpetrator be too close to me? Oh is that a pitbull? Let me run to the next car.
Wow, I'm old enough to remember that final name! But I don't know that I revisited the story as an adult. I would have to look it up.
Very well said.
Thank you.
As it is said: The process is the punishment.
Speaking of Chauvin, I will not consider the corner turned until he is out early. He was not guilty due to the facts of the case not meeting the elements of the crime in that state. No one is imprisoned for 20 years for bad policing.
“ the deep, psychological roots of leftist activism appears to be an unwillingness to accept reality as it is, a morbid obsession with its defects, and paranoid tendency to exaggerate them.”
Edward Fesser, the post liberal order Substack
And another chestnut from the good professor, his definition of woke:
“ a paranoid delusional hyper-egalitarian mindset that seems to see oppression and injustice where they do not exist or greatly exaggerate them where they do exist.”
More:
“ In general, wokeness like Catherism - the gnostic heresy in southern Europe from 1143 to 1321 - is essentially about the radical subversion of normal human life in the name of a paranoid metaphysical delusion. It is fuelled by a seething envy and resentment directed against the natural order of things”.
Sounds about right to me!
"It is fueled by a seething envy and resentment directed against the natural order of things." Great summary—that's exactly what we've seen in Penny's case.
"an unwillingness to accept reality as it is"
Behold, the trans movement!
The prosecutor who actually tried the case is a Bolshevik. Fits the profile.
Derek Chauvin is a martyr. He had no animus against George Floyd and repeatedly called for an ambulance which was late in arriving due to municipal incompetence. He did not kill George Floyd which is evident to anyone who has seen the entire episode, not just edited parts. George Floyd was a canker on society who was slowly dying from his many addictions and poor general health. If the Governor were not Tim Walz he would probably be pardoned. Maybe given a civic medal.
Chauvin was a scapegoat, plain and simple.
I hope Trump pardons him.
A USA President cannot pardon a crime that is a State crime. Federal crimes , yes but not criminal acts subject to States .
Sad the knowledge of the general public has about all things Gov. and financial. Public education of the USA is about as lousy as it can get. Thanks to , yes you guessed it, Government run education. Controlled by Gov. teacher's unions. Gov. workers unions never should have been allowed!
Maybe you could tell us if it's the Governor who can pardon Chauvin?
Yes, the governor of Minnesota could pardon Chauvin, but Walz will never do it.
George Floyd was killing himself on the installment plan and finally succeeded. That's what addicts do, they want to take everyone and anyone in their path along on their suicide mission. Where are the people who sold him those drugs? Why aren't they on trial.?
The protests, looting , arson, destruction, civil unrest were disgusting.
Poor Mr. Chauvin. God Help Him. Why did so many people throw him under the bus? the freaking police unions and politicians were just climbing on his bones.
Floyd was yelling, "I can't breathe" when he was in the back of the squad car. That's why Chauvin removed him from the car and placed him on the ground. It was perfect Minnesota Police Manual protocol.
Agreed.
I pray you are right, and America really is done with BLM movement.
I hope justice has been reset. Danny Penny, thank God, was found not guilty. with that said, I do not know if I trust some cities where George Soros backed DAs still hold power. Alvin Bragg should be pushed out as he allows criminals to go free
Absolutely, Bragg needs to go. So does Dafna Yoran.
When I look at Dafna only two words come to mind: mean and evil.
100%!
Danny?
Money
BLM really consists of 3 groups:
1) the grifters - they'll just change names and victimologies to find a new racket.
2) the looters - run of the mill criminals who will find a new cover for their theft.
3) the believers - out to destroy Western capitalism using Marxism and postmodernism.
I don't know what the mix is. I doubt anyone does. Their current race-essentialist iteration MAY have jumped the shark, but none of these groups are going away.
Very true—it'll take more than a court case to get rid of those groups you mentioned. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on how to stamp them out. It feels to me a little like the mythical hydra—cut off the head of one iteration and another pops up to replace it.
I think "stamp them out" is the wrong way to think about it. 2 of those 3 are basically crooks or conmen. You don't stamp those out, but you can certainly make it harder for them to ply their trade just by enforcing a culture of law and order and virtue. That's a tall order today, but I think it could be done.
The last group can't be incentivized out of existence. The groupies can be punished sufficiently (bankrupted, socially ostracized, loss of professional licenses) to alter their ways. But committed revolutionaries can not be reformed. For those people, this is a war, and they must be treated as enemy combatants: imprisoned, exiled, or executed.
I respect if that seems extreme, and I really hope the last group is small, since getting rid of a large group of revolutionaries is almost impossible -- ask Lenin. But I don't think there's another choice.
There's a Venn diagram for this comment somewhere in the platonic ether.
May this verdict mark a momentous turning point, turning the corner and massive course correction in our social and criminal policy going forward.
This highly appropriate act was necessary in light of the fact that many minorities use the color of their skin to justify acts of violence and intimidation against the people who respect our country.
Notice what Canada’s leaders are doing to their gun owning citizens. They “also” have created a country where citizens can easily become victims.
Charles Fain Lehman has a great article in City Journal (Contra “Root Causes”) on the consequences of the progressive model to criminal justice
> reformers saw the system not as a way to deter or control crime directly but instead to undo society’s harmful influence on the criminal—a therapeutic approach that often goes hand in hand with root-causes thinking.
> During the postwar era, the punitive components of the criminal-justice system withered. The incarceration rate declined between 1961 and 1976; by 1981, murderers averaged a sentence of just five years, while rapists got 3.4
> ... rights-focused criminal-justice system should make crime a nonissue. So what happened?
> “Crime soared,” Wilson wrote in a 1973 Atlantic essay that later became the first chapter of his 1975 book Thinking About Crime. “It did not just increase a little; it rose at a faster rate and to higher levels than at any time since the 1930s and, in some categories, to higher levels than any experienced in this century.”
Fascinating. And instead of learning from that, we've doubled down on the therapeutic approach, to the continued detriment of society.
I'd be willing to bet that the misguided concept of "restorative justice" is part of this "therapeutic approach."
The sad thing is that "restorative justice" was originally a very healthy concept, intended to encourage an offender to take responsibility for his crime not just to amorphous "society" but to his actual victims, and to restore that broken relationship. It's easier to dismiss the impact of your actions when you think it's "The Man" that got hit rather than the grandmother down the street, or the storekeeper who's working 14-hour days to provide the things you want. But there's very little restoration in what now takes the name of restorative justice, just as our reformatories don't reform, our correctional institutions don't correct, and our penitentiaries produce no penitents. We seem to oscillate between "throw away the key" and "it's all society's fault," rather than encouraging responsibility and choosing a life of honor.
Penny chose honor at risk to himself, both in the moment and as the hyenas chased him. I salute the Marine.