I think that your reference to the inner experience of cultural upheaval or fragmentation is very interesting. I am not clear though about what you are saying in your last paragraph. What do you see as "occupying space in the souls of people who are internally collapsing"?
I have wondered for some time if what I am feeling and what many o…
I think that your reference to the inner experience of cultural upheaval or fragmentation is very interesting. I am not clear though about what you are saying in your last paragraph. What do you see as "occupying space in the souls of people who are internally collapsing"?
I have wondered for some time if what I am feeling and what many other Americans appear to be feeling is how people typically feel when their countries are falling apart. Is that part of what you are saying?
I can be abbreviated to the point of unintentionally cryptic - sorry.
I like what you say - a kind of feeling of vertigo, maybe. I feel it, and I'm guessing you do, too - I think that a lot of us do.
I am referring to a kind of spiritual void in our ruling classes that this new religion is rushing in to fill - one does not join a cult unless susceptible. This I do not feel at all, and many of us don't. It is concentrated among that group as part of their class indoctrination at elite universities, etc. - and now everywhere. They are "anti" on-principle; The nation, family, God - you name it.
In the past, we would think of such people as "lost souls," but now they are part of a ruling party/class and their delusions are becoming law. It might as well be Nexium or Scientology. There are weird sub-cults within it - Trans, Race, the Sacklers, the Pritzkers, etc. It is, as they say, "intersectional."
What you are saying is certainly true of the people I know who endorse the woke platform. They usually are atheists, or simply say that they aren't interested in religion. When I was first in the process of discovering why I felt hatred for "Democrats," I posted on the WSJ that I thought the woke movement was a cult. Someone responded, "No. We are atheists and secular humanists." I thought that a person in that belief situation might have more reason to want to join a cult.
They flatter themselves by saying that they are atheists - no way. Atheism is a philosophical conclusion - an answer to the question: why reality and not nothing? The answer is either theism or atheism - that all is particles/accident. Being philosophical, it cannot be dogmatic - the question must always remain open. Secular Humanism has nothing to do with this - it is the appropriation of Divine Providence (or "History" if you like) by humans - atheism denies the existence of any Providence whatsoever.
They are ordinary moralists caught up in the process of secularization - "Secular Humanism." Within the Catholic Church, these people end up in a kind of mawkish cult of Suffering Humanity - they blame God for every misery. Their next step is to hate the Church and join all the other "Secular Humanists" - God speed.
"They are ordinary moralists caught up in the process of secularization"
You are so right about this! I need to keep remembering that these are people who are following a new version of conventional morality, and they are doing it in a way that is rigid and mean, and which wards off the open, objective inquiry of science. It's really so "old fashioned" in its conventionality that you could literally in your post rattle off a list of similar social phenomena in other times and places.
The language used by the cult is relentlessly confusing in its reversals of meanings and in the certainty with which it is wielded. There is an appearance of intellectual and moral reasoning, but it mostly consists of pseudo-religious repetition of sacred phrases and of following rules prescribed by the cult. In reality, the level of thought that is typical of the woke is shallow and not intended to function as a strategy to reach any truth, but is in fact mostly a kind of an act, albeit one that is motivated by "good" intentions in many cases.
In the past, such people stuck to the conventions of traditional custom/culture and morality, and it was fine - that is what it is for - to educate people to a minimum level of civilization. Occasionally, you get a nasty person - but that's always.
Now, they are conforming to a kind of private, intersubjective mysticism.
They are pretty much the "Good Burghers" of today - with a heinous culture whose center is a deranged religion.
We could say that the woke are obsessed to an extreme degree with creating new forms and new rules. Chris Rufo has previously observed that this cult is associated with bureaucracies, and that the ultimate level to which its members aspire is to remain a bureaucrat.
The woke practice the law but don't know how to connect with the spirit, and you are saying that they then connect with the experience of no-spirit instead, which feels terrible to them. To solve this they try to worship idols constructed from idealized images of "persecuted" minority identities.
If they don't take care, they will be involved in crimes, and perhaps even war crimes; it is a foreseeable outcome, and quite a few are demonstrating the temperament.
Don't be surprised if this happens. I suspect that it will, given the cruelty of Trans, the border and the foreign wars to "remake the world." We'll see...
Yes, I am seeing that the woke are very drawn to charismatic narcissists, even if the narcissists are bizarrely exhibitionistic, or even perverted. Narcissists are less influenced than are average conventional people by ethical principles or empathy. They use aggression to enhance their sense of superiority and power, or just because they like to be aggressive and to hurt people. I think that "DEI" could easily evolve into the Department of the Inquisition.
True. And atheism (the "conclude there is nothing" version) is also a belief - as reason only brings one to agnosticism. One's conviction from there, is a personal choice.
I think that your reference to the inner experience of cultural upheaval or fragmentation is very interesting. I am not clear though about what you are saying in your last paragraph. What do you see as "occupying space in the souls of people who are internally collapsing"?
I have wondered for some time if what I am feeling and what many other Americans appear to be feeling is how people typically feel when their countries are falling apart. Is that part of what you are saying?
I can be abbreviated to the point of unintentionally cryptic - sorry.
I like what you say - a kind of feeling of vertigo, maybe. I feel it, and I'm guessing you do, too - I think that a lot of us do.
I am referring to a kind of spiritual void in our ruling classes that this new religion is rushing in to fill - one does not join a cult unless susceptible. This I do not feel at all, and many of us don't. It is concentrated among that group as part of their class indoctrination at elite universities, etc. - and now everywhere. They are "anti" on-principle; The nation, family, God - you name it.
In the past, we would think of such people as "lost souls," but now they are part of a ruling party/class and their delusions are becoming law. It might as well be Nexium or Scientology. There are weird sub-cults within it - Trans, Race, the Sacklers, the Pritzkers, etc. It is, as they say, "intersectional."
What you are saying is certainly true of the people I know who endorse the woke platform. They usually are atheists, or simply say that they aren't interested in religion. When I was first in the process of discovering why I felt hatred for "Democrats," I posted on the WSJ that I thought the woke movement was a cult. Someone responded, "No. We are atheists and secular humanists." I thought that a person in that belief situation might have more reason to want to join a cult.
They flatter themselves by saying that they are atheists - no way. Atheism is a philosophical conclusion - an answer to the question: why reality and not nothing? The answer is either theism or atheism - that all is particles/accident. Being philosophical, it cannot be dogmatic - the question must always remain open. Secular Humanism has nothing to do with this - it is the appropriation of Divine Providence (or "History" if you like) by humans - atheism denies the existence of any Providence whatsoever.
They are ordinary moralists caught up in the process of secularization - "Secular Humanism." Within the Catholic Church, these people end up in a kind of mawkish cult of Suffering Humanity - they blame God for every misery. Their next step is to hate the Church and join all the other "Secular Humanists" - God speed.
"They are ordinary moralists caught up in the process of secularization"
You are so right about this! I need to keep remembering that these are people who are following a new version of conventional morality, and they are doing it in a way that is rigid and mean, and which wards off the open, objective inquiry of science. It's really so "old fashioned" in its conventionality that you could literally in your post rattle off a list of similar social phenomena in other times and places.
The language used by the cult is relentlessly confusing in its reversals of meanings and in the certainty with which it is wielded. There is an appearance of intellectual and moral reasoning, but it mostly consists of pseudo-religious repetition of sacred phrases and of following rules prescribed by the cult. In reality, the level of thought that is typical of the woke is shallow and not intended to function as a strategy to reach any truth, but is in fact mostly a kind of an act, albeit one that is motivated by "good" intentions in many cases.
LOL exactly what I mean.
In the past, such people stuck to the conventions of traditional custom/culture and morality, and it was fine - that is what it is for - to educate people to a minimum level of civilization. Occasionally, you get a nasty person - but that's always.
Now, they are conforming to a kind of private, intersubjective mysticism.
They are pretty much the "Good Burghers" of today - with a heinous culture whose center is a deranged religion.
We could say that the woke are obsessed to an extreme degree with creating new forms and new rules. Chris Rufo has previously observed that this cult is associated with bureaucracies, and that the ultimate level to which its members aspire is to remain a bureaucrat.
The woke practice the law but don't know how to connect with the spirit, and you are saying that they then connect with the experience of no-spirit instead, which feels terrible to them. To solve this they try to worship idols constructed from idealized images of "persecuted" minority identities.
If they don't take care, they will be involved in crimes, and perhaps even war crimes; it is a foreseeable outcome, and quite a few are demonstrating the temperament.
Don't be surprised if this happens. I suspect that it will, given the cruelty of Trans, the border and the foreign wars to "remake the world." We'll see...
Yes, I am seeing that the woke are very drawn to charismatic narcissists, even if the narcissists are bizarrely exhibitionistic, or even perverted. Narcissists are less influenced than are average conventional people by ethical principles or empathy. They use aggression to enhance their sense of superiority and power, or just because they like to be aggressive and to hurt people. I think that "DEI" could easily evolve into the Department of the Inquisition.
True. And atheism (the "conclude there is nothing" version) is also a belief - as reason only brings one to agnosticism. One's conviction from there, is a personal choice.
Or an intuition.
Absolutely. Or, a direct experience.